Easyboard shower installation

There are lots of proper backer boards that are impervious to water damage — any of those should be used. Tiles will only need to be sealed if they are natural stone travertine, marble, etc. However, the grout WILL need to be sealed unless you use epoxy grout. But, you need to wait 72 hours or more before you seal it. I personally really like the sealers by Aqua Mix.

If only sealing grout, make sure you get one that is NOT an enhancing sealer — or it will darken the look of your grout wet look color. As with most things like this, it makes sense to Plan, Plan, Plan and then do. We also like using epoxy grout on the floors. Epoxy grout is great but you MUST read and follow the directions exactly — it is not forgiving, sets up fast, and there is more prep — you need to coat the tiles with soapy water before and clean everything very quickly and thoroughly right after grouting.

Very awesome article and comprising, really helpful and easy to absorb. It really made me make up my mine in what to use in my bath room, something for a few dollars less is not worst it so you just better do it right the first time and sleep like a baby knowing that you did it right. I used go board on walls around my bathtub. I intended to tile, then decided to glue a tub surround on the walls instead.

Will the walls stay stuck? I live in an area that has frequent small to medium earthquakes. Olklahoma Tile in my bathroom is starting to crack and I want to completely retile my shower. What would you reccommend to prevent my new tile job from cracking??? I think the most important thing would be to put movement joints in the new tile shower. All the corners and changes-of-plane will have to have a gap and the gap would be caulked and not grouted.

This will allow things to move. I have a recent post on this very subject that you may want to look at. Otherwise you could use a membrane over the backer board walls similar to how you would go over a concrete floor that has cracks in it.

The membrane would have to be a crack isolation membrane A Nobleseal TS is one example. Redgard would be another. Thank you for all of your help with my bathroom remodel. In my bathroom, there was a five foot tile tub surround and then about 22 inches of drywall above it to the ceiling. If I am using Wedi board and make a flush transition to the drywall using sealing tape, could I continue tiling to the ceiling on the drywall? Thank you! Drywall at the top is fine. I guess it would depend on the height of your ceiling.

Usually you want the Wedi board to be at least as high as the shower head. My husband used Hardibacker mold block cement board, and a vapor barrier between the cement board and the studs. There is an area behind the shower wall that is not sheetrocked on the other side. I can see moisture and mold between the plastic and cement board. No water is hitting wood.

Is this normal? What should we do? So my hunch is that you have an issue with the shower somewhere. You situation shows that it is. Hi — this blog is fantastic!! Water vapor could actually pass through the surface barrier and be blocked by the barrier behind. What you can do is use a 40 mil shower pan liner in the shower pan.

You would flash this up the walls about inches typically. Then use a liquid or Kerdi-type sheet membrane waterproofing on the surface. This would be applied on the cement board and down to the pan but not on the shower pan itself.

That way the two barriers would overlap. I use the appropriate coated screws for both floors and walls and alkaline mesh tape all seems and corners on both floors and walls. Sounds like you are doing everything to the letter which is great!

Otherwise keep doing what you are doing. I am getting ready to imbark on my first bathroom remodel and I keep hearing contradictory statements on what to do for waterproofing my tub area before I tile and what I should put on the floor before I tile that. Some say place a sheet of plastic barrier between the studs and concrete board and then seal the concrete board with a membrane.

And others say to just use the plastic and nothing on the concrete board. While others are saying to just use the concrete board and nothing else. Any suggestions on what to put on starting with the studs? Thank you. How is the seam treated between wonderboard and the fiberglass reinforced shower pans.

As a second question, do you prefer using premade shower pans or laid up ones built on site. I know that one problem with premade is size limitations. In my house I wanted a four feet by six feet shower pan. Still looking. Thanks, Allen. You want either a sheet of plastic behind the cement board or a waterproofing membrane on the surface.

Not both. Redoing a shower tub wall and found out they used cement board for the bottom half of the wall, then some sort of really crumbly, brown board on the top half I think it was green board? I cut the top where the tiles stopped a few feet from the ceiling and tore everything to the studs from there down. Plan on using cement board or foam board to build the walls back, and tile over that.

But my concern is where either substrate will meet with the remaining wall boards. How do I best seal this area? Meshtape and thinset? As far as the seam question I will have a post coming out on this in about a month. But the short answer is that I caulk it. First I waterproof the board and then I caulk the gap between the backer board and the tub flange. And for the second question I prefer doing mud shower pans.

I know how to do them and the materials are inexpensive. I think the foam pans are a good DIY option because the slope is built in and they are a little easier to waterproof. But, like you mentioned, things have to be set up just right for these. Or buy a custom made one. The best way is to try to transition outside the wet area but still inside the area to be tiled.

You want to mesh tape and thinset the cement board to the drywall. Maybe inches before the tile stops so that the tile covers that seam. What I know is that a shower needs a waterproof barrier. I suppose you could slice the paper faced insulation and install a sheet membrane on the shower which would act as a vapor retarder also? To me that seems like over thinking it. Hi tile guy. I am in the midst of bathroom project from hell. Tiny room. Simple, after the basement floor was busted up and pipes put in.

So, I got tile and all the fixings yesterday for install today. But felt nagged by thinking surely that drywall would need to be sealed really well first if used in a shower.

Kerdi board? I like that that option sounds light weight and easier to use than the usual cement board. Or, should I go with wonder board or the like? Or, 2 can he fix Kerdi board on top of the greenboard and then tile over the Kerdi board and seal all the edges? I am still trying to figure out how to seal that. Thank you so very much. Scratch that… just got my own answer, I think. There is greenboard on the ceiling too that I will treat with PVA and then paint.

Wedi board is a good option. Another option available to you is to simply put Kerdi fabric not board over the greenboard. I think USG Durock fabric is ok over greenboard also. We have builder installed pebble tile in the shower. The pebbles are black and so is the grout. We are starting to see white colored cracks in the grout. Does the shower just need to be regrouted?

Should we use a light colored grout this time? Could there be water seepage through those cracks? Thanks for your response. It sounds like efflorescene. You might be able to mask it temporarily with grout sealers but the only solution is to fix the cracks which means tearing out the pan and redoing it.

Thank you so much for your reply. Thank you so much. I would check the corners. But you may be fixing the symptom rather than curing the problem. What a great site! I have a couple questions about Schluter. Now I have to decide what the replacement will be. He allows that coating the Hardibacker with Red Gard might be a good idea. One thing is clear to me: success with Schluter is a function of your expertise with thinset and a trowel.

Poor thinset work? What do you think? And the Redgard is essentially a must. As far as the Schluter Kerdi Shower System goes, they have good videos and instructions for their system. Schluter has never claimed that thinset mortar is waterproof.

What they claim is that their system is waterproof. This claim has held up over the years and the fact that other companies have followed suit is further proof that it works. However, in my experience, water wicking up the walls during a flood test has never been an issue.

The water is usually splashing around a little bit at least and it shows on the sides of the walls. This is most noticeable on Wedi Board showers because they are dark gray and the coating is cementitious.

What I am concerned about with a flood test is the water level. Water sitting in the shower pan is a good way to keep other people out of there. Schluter has a FAQ section on their website that goes into the modified vs unmodified thinset reasoning.

Furthering my point is the fact that they just came out with their own line of modified thinset mortar called All-SET that can be used with their products. Thanks for the quick reply. Is there a reason NOT to use it? I do care about never, ever having to worry about the shower ever leaking been there, done that. It just seems so light and easy to work with. Is there a functional down side? I say choose one or the other. If you are using Kerdi for the shower you can use Kerdi fix on all the seams as extra insurance.

This would accomplish the same thing as using Redgard. Additionally, this practice would probably be ok with Schluter I would think. Pick up some drywall shims in the sheetrock section. You staple then to the studs to build out the Hardibacker. Use the drywall shims to make the wall flat. When you are done coat the Hardibacker with Redgard or similar waterproofing.

Great informative article. What thickness of the foam backer board do I need to use? It will go directly onto my timber studs… Ta. The best thing to do on this is to call tech support for the brand of foam board that you are using. I think it will depend on the timbers. Most importantly is to find out how they want it fastened. A call is the best way to find out. I am replacing a tub and adding a shower. I have removed all but the top foot of green board in the alcove. I plan to install 4mil vapor barrier then hardibaker.

Do I have to sand the paint off the green board that remains or should the hardibacker go to the ceiling? The mortar will stick to painted drywall just fine. We are planning to remodel our bathroom and remove the tub and have a tiled shower installed. The contractor uses John Mansfield GoBoard and sealant.

Should we be concerned that this product has not be around very long? We are searching the internet for feedback but really have found very little about this particular product. Is it as good as the Schluter system, etc.? What are your thoughts please? Also, any concern with keeping the shower drain in the approximate same position as it was with the tub?

Is it just a matter of ascetics? I would rather not be standing on the drain. The big advantage of Johns Manville GoBoard versus competing products like Kerdi Board or Wedi Board is that it costs quite a bit less while still providing the same, or similar benefits. This is where a system like Schluter or Wedi is an advantage as they make and guarantee an entire shower. As far as a drain goes, whether it remains offset or is moved to the center is more a matter of personal preference.

I prefer them centered because I find the slope angles to be a bit steep when the drain is at one end. With it centered the slope is much more gradual and consistent.

But it is in the middle and will be stepped on. I have installed a traditional Oatey PVC pan liner per the manuf. I am at the point of deciding what backer board to use. I see your comments about Wedi and it looks like a very good option. Do you know if you can do this? The Wedi site does not give any guidance nor do they provide a customer service phone number to ask questions like this. Everything seems to be email.

Yes, Wedi panels can be used with a traditional mid pan and liner. Typically Wedi panels are used with their foam shower pans, like you mentioned, but also can be used with a mud bed with a waterproofing membrane on top.

They have a product called Wedi Subliner Dry for this purpose. You could also use Wedi wall panels with a mud pan and liner. The stiffer wall board can help keep The bottom of the board that overlaps the liner from flexing. Will this be okay after applying thinset and tile or should I take off the permabase in the areas of concern and apply a couple supporting cross studs? Waterproofing, in the grand scheme of things, is money well spent.

If you want to do the minimum then you could install some plastic or tar paper behind the studs and still be ahead. I am tiling an uninsulated basement floor. Can I apply foam board over the concrete floor using thinset, then install heating cables over this, then thinset the tiles over this? It seams to be the way its done in England where they have been using electric heating cables extensively for a long time. Are there any shower wall or pan waterproofing methods that would cause problems with thinset adhesion to the backing surface?

Yes, this is good. The best thing is to use high-quality thinset mortars and get good mortar coverage on the back of the tiles. Can NobleSeal or similar be installed over Densshield.

My father in-law started a remodel of a walk-in shower and had put up Densshield before passing away. Noble tends to be more conservative with what they recommend as substrates. Thank you for prompt reply. Thanks again. FYI, while some of the foam that you see in your local building centers may Be from the same manufacturers you can easily tell who provides what just by the colors of the foam they are not the same.

While they are extremely similar and have the same properties, some foam boards are either too rigid or too flimsy. I am a sales rep for wedi Corp and our manufacturer makes our foam specifically for us and to our specifications.

A foam board that is too rigid can actually crack with normal movement in a structure and foam that is too weak will have too much flex in the wall cavities. So to answer that question, while there are many similarities, there are vast differences. If it was as simple as painting a waterproof coating over a cheaper foam, we would be able to do that and offer a cheaper product, cost wise.

Hi Dennis. Thanks for your comment and I appreciate your input. This is a very good article. That is why drywall of any kind failed horribly, giving tile a bad reputation. Many people still are resistant to tile because of it.

The Building Codes finally banned the use of drywall of any kind behind a shower around I have never been a fan of the fiber cement, or cement boards, as you pointed out, they soak in moisture. I have demode showers with Durrock, and it had literally turned to sand on the lower part that was constantly wet. Since then, all the Gypsum Board manufacturers have tile backer boards.

Sclurter was the pioneer in the waterproof backer-boards and decoupling membranes. I attended a Schluter seminar around I have torn out many showers on concrete, and they were solid.

I appreciate the response. Everyone is going to have their preferences but most important is doing things correctly. A lot of times people think the gypsum tile backers are ready to go once they are installed. But, like you mentioned, extra work is needed to get them to be waterproof. Just loading them in the house vs. Is this accurate? I essentially want to tile the whole shower and not the ceiling. Do you see any issue with this design? Is there another option you recommend?

I could potentially go with the Wedi Primo vs. You really only need Wedi Sealant up to the shower head, or so. You would need to tape and mud any seams above this point with thinset and mesh tape if you decide to forego the sealant at this level.

To accomplish this there is supposed to be plywood subfloor that is installed in between each floor joist.

Wedi explains what their requirements are for this in their instructions for Ligno. Hopefully that will make things more clear. Please let me know if you have further questions on this. We are redoing a small bathroom. Removing the existing enclosure and tiling the walls. My question is whether we should use Densshield behind the tile or Duralock?

Someone told me what Densshield has an extra barrier to it. However, it would need an additional waterproof layer to stop water from penetrating through.

A lot of times people will use a paint-on liquid waterproofing which is fairly economical. Thank you sir! This is easy to remedy. As long as your screw head is flush with surface just take a stiff edged putty knife or 5 in 1 tool and scrape the protruding material around screw head off flush. It helps to have a sharp edge on putty knife and may require scraping in different directions bit usually it will remove it.

We are building a shower in our downstairs bathroom and have purchased Weidi Board for the walls in the shower along with their screws, sealant etc. Our question is how much of a gap should we leave between the bottom of the Weidi board and the top of the base? And should we notch out the back of the Weidi board so it sits flat with the transition from the flange to the wall studs? We are looking to start this part of the job today and your valued advise would be greatly appreciated.

These are just my opinions. We are reinstalling a new adhesive shower enclosure that was previously glued to green board. I believe the green board was installed with not enough clearance from the shower pan as mold and mildew crept up the existing boards. When we tore out the existing enclosure it pulled most of the paper from the boards so I would like to replace them. My question is, what material do you recommend using if we are planning on replacing the enclosure with adhesive panels?

Thanks in advance. I stumbled on this site after reading about backerboards and which one to use. I have used Kerdi membrane on hardie backer but I have become a little impatient with weekend diy work at home. So I am reading to take the plunge into the foam boards. My problem is that I just bought the schluter niches, and surround flange, etc. I did see some Goboard and Durock foam board, and Wedi. Am I tiling the entire bathroom and bedroom?

I know, there is a question coming… here it is. Can I then mix wedi board with schluter niches? They same question would apply to USG Durock foam board.

I just want to get this over in a week or two or less. Did you get the question? Great site, I do appreciate how you explain the differences and convince me to move into Foam board.

You might be interested in my posts on building shampoo niches. I just went to a trade show recently and everyone either has a foam panel or is coming out with one. Hopefully, the prices will come down accordingly. I will check how to build those and saving money always makes the mrs. Does this have advantages or disadvantages over the Kerdi for wall or flooring applications? Or is any membrane overkill on a floor maybe just a liquid sealer over cement board? So the two different products, Kerdi and Ditra, have two different uses.

So as far as Ditra vs cement board for floors, it just depends on what you want to accomplish. But they both perform essentially the same function: to provide an underlayment for tile over a subfloor. However, it has a minimum size requirement of 2 inch x 2 inch. Is there an option to wedi pans for the shower floor? Second floor bathroom with sub floors? Some of these companies will make custom size foam pans, also.

Take a look at my Shower Waterproofing Crash Course for more info on this system. I was planning on using DensArmor Plus paperless drywall panels outside the wet areas. DensArmor is made with a fiberglass facing. If the seam will be covered with tile then I would just use alkaline resistant mesh tape.

The data sheet says it can be covered with typical wall coverings, including tile, so thinset and alkaline resistant tape would work fine, I would guess. Emailed tech support and they say that yes the fiberglass facing on the panels is alkali resistant and yes it will take tile mortar without degrading. Sounds like a sure thing. What is the minimum this wall should extend beyond the tub skirting my though is to run the tile all the way to the floor in this area?

Also, whether you run tile all the way around the end of the wall or just keep the tile on each side is another design decision. It will increase the difficulty of the install of you tie both sides of the wall into one another. Your grout joints will so have to line up and the chair rail will have to be mitered around the end. Pro tip: make sure that your toilet will fit before you tile the floor and the wall behind. Some toilets are right up to the sheetrock walk with no tile behind. Hi, and thank you in advance for your help.

This will be for shower walls. Would you put blocking behind the horizontal seams for a foamboard product? I personally have not added blocking at the seams and found it to be sufficient once the sealant was dry.

If using a porcelain shower pan how can my contractor tie that to Durock foam or Kerdi Board? Presently he plans to use Greenboard but I will ask him to use either of the above materials.

I plan on tiling halfway up the other 3 walls in the bathroom. I am new to this amazing forum. I really enjoy all of the hints, tips, and opinions. I am hoping someone can advise me on my upcoming project. I am tiling a large shower with a 10 foot ceiling. Cement board with Kerdi membrane will be used for the shower walls all the way up above the shower head.

We are using a Kerdi shower pan with a dry pack mortar extension, of course covered and finished with Kerdi membrane as well. It will be water tested before tiling. OR, Could the advise have been to use a thinset to affix the cement board to the Kerdi shower pan and then membrane over the whole thing for waterproofing? The Kerdi pan comes with a recessed hole as part of the slope.

Or will it not matter since the board would still be sloped? If I am using Hardi cement board, two questions should I put a plastic vapor barrier behind it no second, should I still use a liquid waterproofed over the backer board. Any help is greatly appreciated. I have a post on the different methods for waterproofing a shower. But the short answer is that I think a liquid waterproofing on the surface is better for most cases.

I then found out that Diamondback requires modified tile mortar whereas the kerdi board and kerdi band requires unmodified. The cheap way forward for me now is to seal the entire wall area with Aquadefense and fiberglass tape. A more expensive alternative is to just replace all of the Diamondback with Kerdiboard and stick with the Schlutter system. Great info on your site. We are waterproofing and tiling 3 walls of a new shower install and considering timing the ceiling over the shower enclosure also.

My question. What product should we use to attach to the ceiling trusses that will be firm enough to hold the tile and not sag and at the same time be easy to work with and waterproof. We are planning on using either cement board with a paint on waterproofing or wedi board for the walls.

Will eithe if these work for the ceiling?? Thanks for you help, Mark. Yes, either will work for the ceiling. Wedi board is a lot easier to install on the ceiling and waterproof but either board will work. You do need 16 inch center spacing still. I am about to start my first tiling project, the bathroom. My question is about the non-shower areas. The top half of the walls will be painted.

Do I just use a tile-worthy backerboard on the bottom half and then switch to drywall for the top half for the paint? I applied an additional layer of Aqua-defense over the tape while the first layer was still wet to completely infiltrate the mesh. I also ran the mesh in this way so that it overhung the Densshield by 1cm where it meets the flange.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. There is very little information for areas surrounding steam showers. First, a tile steam shower has very specific instructions for waterproofing it appropriately. Out of curiosity, where are you located? Many people here have been looking for a source of EasyBoard for shower walls and you are the first to report a Home Despot that stocks the stuff. Hopefully it's a trend that will spread. Nice short little video, but could not see what the guy used to cut with.

He actually said it could be used in a shower installation, but I'm skeptical Surprisingly, I did a search of Custom's site and still came up empty. If the product is on the market the applicable data sheets should be on their site. Maybe NormT Custom marketing exec. Haven't seen any Prism here. The repair I gotta do is gonna be with a noble liner,There I guess I would lathe the curb throw down some mud slip it over and fasten to the outside.

Dave Gobis,any news on this? I don't use the Schluter bases for the same reason I won't use anybody else's bases. They will never fit the showers I'm remodling. I'll stick with mud. Don't know how long it took Noble. I think Wedi has some dues to pay in that deparment. I have no idea what a upc listing is to be honest with you. I like schluter products,I got a t-shirt and a vest too. I was really impressed with the pan and thought it was worth looking into and wanted the opinions of some of the more respected people here who know a little more of the behind the scenes stuff.

Last time I got this excited was when I tried ditra for the first time. John,I hear what your saying about remodels and I agree but it is cool none-the-less. If I were a richer man or it was my company I would send ya one. I'll try to type softer. UPC is the uniform plumbing code and they have jurisdiction on plbg. I was at the TCA handbook meeting for the new book,this product wasn't.

If thats the case then that would limit the places you could use the wedi drain,like in new construction or apartment buildings because of the inspectors which leaves the tile setter holding the bag unless its a low key remodel and then unless the shower is the perfect size you're back to slinging mud. I hope it does get listed,seems like a great product.

I'm doing my buddies house real soon and i am walking him through the remodel of his bath so maybe I will try it there. BTW-in his upstairs bath I did use a noble liner,with wedi on the walls and reguard on the seams with spectralock grout,the things is water tight for sure. Is the kerdi drain UPC listed? So, William, you gonna show us a picher of one of these things bein' pewt in? I have been involved with wedi since and have found their products and technical knowledge second to none.

While they continue to struggle with distribution and pricing they have raised the bar regarding expectations about foam cored backerboards and their performance capabilities.

The Easy Board will provide a significant challenge to the wedi group in that Custom will prove to very strong at both marketing of their product and its distribution into their huge channel.

The expanded polystrene core of the Easy Broad appears to be about 2 to 2. The extruded polystrene core of the wedi panels is about 30 psi, however, the wedi is naturally waterproof due to the "honeycombed" celluar structure of the foam.

Both products are going to perform about the same with only real differences being pricing structures and availability. The preformed showerpans discussed above are known as Fundo and have been in the wedi catalog for years. Eric is correct in that they must, if haven't already, get some form of code approvals for there to be significant useage here.

The notch around the outside of the pan was a suggestion I made because I felt it would provide not just a channel for the wedi panels to set in, but would also provide a good channel for the application of a waterproofing sealant.

I have used wedi for years in a variety of applications and would encourage all users of the hard boards to consider "dropping the rock and coming out of the cave. Where the hell you been, Dale?

You pretendin' to be a new guy, or you forget your password? I am with Eric, no shower bases at the committee meeting. They did approve some new methods, 18 of them, but that wasn't on the list. Dale, it has been awhile, where you been?

Youse the only one I know that does tile and introduces dados. The notch around the bottom was a good idea. The whole system really impressed me. Tell ya what,I even look at a piece of rock and I get in a bad mood,no reason at all to use them anymore,at least for me,seems I am one of the lucky ones who can drive 10 minutes and get my hands on the stuff.

Dale, you really need to get out and sun yourself a little more. You're lookin' a little pekid. I think we should all know better than to try to talk to Dale,he's kinda like the tile ranger-in and out as fast as he came in.

Spelt: peaked. Now, somebody splain us why it means what John said. The new one is made by Oatey and is approved what allows us to avoid struggling with certification processes. BTW,the fundo is the most used product in showers for disabled people and in the market sector for flat shower pans in good old Europe since Thanks for your open-minded acting : Bastian.

Bastian, You've got to figure out how to post pictures here. I would like to see that drain. As of right now, Schluter is the only company to make a special drain in this country. I'm not understanding how Oatey can avoid the certification process while making a new drain. Or are you adapting your product to one of their existing drains?

If you need help posting pics, let me know. I can do it for you. John, thanks for your offer-will try it. This drain is also available in brass. You seal it to the upcoming 22 ABS pipe by squeezing the sealing rubber-easy and safe. And this is coming next.. Also available as customized prefab system completely made by wedi 6 hrs for tile ready Installation.. Bastian,you gotta send John or one of the other guys a shower system so they can review it. I back it up completly but it might do better with one of the elders approval.

Where did you purchase your Fundo system?